Incivility and one other irritation addressed...aka opposite sides of the same wooden nickel...aka Why is it we play these things exactly?
Don likes to give me shit about being too political with other bloggers. He shouldn’t have that problem with this. There are two issues floating around that I want to get off my chest with no deference to propriety.
People tilt over losing. Fine. But just because you lose does not make everyone else a donkey. You know better. Personally I find the play in blogger MTTs to be a good prep for the large field MTTs. I don’t think the occasional donk play therein (including most of my own play in the last three appearances) even begins to approach the ill-conceived moves you will find in fields of 200 or more. I will specifically say I watched the end of MATH this week and thought cc played the bubble better than our boy steve-o. Yes, he caught aces twice in a row, but what saved him is that he went into aggro overdrive and began to push like a mothafuckah. The blinds he stole came directly out of slb’s stack and sealed his fate. I personally made Steve’s error in the 12k and gave up my shot at 2nd because I couldn’t bring myself to push with crap – which cc was obviously doing.
BTW, cc: yet again tried to comment to this effect on your site to no avail. It is depressing you felt you had to post that defense – those of us who “know” you also know it was unnecessary.
There is always something to be learned in defeat. And the lesson is rarely that your opponents are fucking morons, or that you should take your glove and balls and go home. I try not to focus on the luck element or my opponents’ questionable moves simply because I have no fucking control over it. Instead I try to ask myself, “How and where did I fuck this up?” Rare is the game I have played where the answers are “I didn’t” and “Nowhere, my play was ideal start to finish.”
And by rare I mean nonexistent.
Edit: Please see this guy, who was used quite roughly in the 20k yesterday, for a lesson in how to take a beat like a man. A very funny man.
People are also coming out of the woodwork to insist that they don’t even try to win these things - it’s all about droppin’ hammers and putting people on tilt, the tournaments are just an extended joke. Now most of the guys saying this are Old Schoolers, and since they started all this, who the fuck am I to call them on it? If that’s truly why you play, that’s cool.
Personally that’s not why I play. By nature I am so competitive that I can’t help but want to win everything I sign up for. And I mean everything, from a $6 token race, to Crash Tag Team Racing with my four year-old son, to the FT 20k, which I vow I will bend over my knee one day soon and paddle until she’s bright red. Well, maybe not so much the video game…but all the rest holds up.
Yes, I have a good, good time shootin’ the shit with the boyz & girls, breaking out my signature hand A7s (The Accidental Tourist) whenever I can. But I still want to win. Every single time. Playing 27o or low suited connectors from LP doesn’t mean you don’t want to win. It means you are making plays. That’s no different for any other MTT I’ve played.
I am guessing, but I would bet Don, Hoy, Smokkee and the rest of the guys I normally run with feel the same. And no, it ain’t about the score: everyone on the list I’m thinking of is rolled to where the score is nice evening-out money, but not going to change the levels we play. It’s about the bragging rights.
To routinely sign-up on a weekly basis, and claim you aren’t playing to win is a fascile, if perfect, alibi. If you never win – hey you weren’t trying. If through some miracle you do win – hey you could’ve won any time you wanted. That’s ingenious, but also pretty ingenuous, and I for one don’t believe it for a second. Your thoughts, as always, are welcome.
Edit: Duggles feel I have misinterpreted him. Here is his post following last week's Mookie without alteration. Posted Thursday, Sept. 21, 2006
"A lot of people seem to be getting their panties twisted up into their twats over the quality of play in the Mookie.
I think we need to remind ourselves that it's a lousy $10 tournament that probably costs most of us more money to play based on what we would win by playing some other games. The thing takes like 3.5 hours to finish, and you stand to make like $150 for first place? My time is better spent at the PLO8 tables, if I'm in it for the money.
The point is to have fun, put the worst, tilt-inducing beat or bluff past your opponents, and drop a lot of hammers.
I heard about one player saying he "needed to win" the Mookie last night. If this was true, you really shouldn't be playing."
Well feel free to tell me I misinterpreted this, but for those who haven't noticed, I've read a book or two, and feel pretty good about my reading comprehension. I'll just say that a "lousy $10 tournament" looks a lot better to some people once they win it. I thought Mookie showed a lot of class (as always) overlooking that description of his online homegame. I'll try to follow his example. Congratulations on the win: as far as I'm concerned, that's a tough field to beat.
Anyway, I screwed the pooch bigtime in my attempt to repeat at the Mookie, and I don’t feel bad in the least that I was trying my best to kick all your asses. I always am. The only thing I regret is how rarely that happens.
Laytah.
People tilt over losing. Fine. But just because you lose does not make everyone else a donkey. You know better. Personally I find the play in blogger MTTs to be a good prep for the large field MTTs. I don’t think the occasional donk play therein (including most of my own play in the last three appearances) even begins to approach the ill-conceived moves you will find in fields of 200 or more. I will specifically say I watched the end of MATH this week and thought cc played the bubble better than our boy steve-o. Yes, he caught aces twice in a row, but what saved him is that he went into aggro overdrive and began to push like a mothafuckah. The blinds he stole came directly out of slb’s stack and sealed his fate. I personally made Steve’s error in the 12k and gave up my shot at 2nd because I couldn’t bring myself to push with crap – which cc was obviously doing.
BTW, cc: yet again tried to comment to this effect on your site to no avail. It is depressing you felt you had to post that defense – those of us who “know” you also know it was unnecessary.
There is always something to be learned in defeat. And the lesson is rarely that your opponents are fucking morons, or that you should take your glove and balls and go home. I try not to focus on the luck element or my opponents’ questionable moves simply because I have no fucking control over it. Instead I try to ask myself, “How and where did I fuck this up?” Rare is the game I have played where the answers are “I didn’t” and “Nowhere, my play was ideal start to finish.”
And by rare I mean nonexistent.
Edit: Please see this guy, who was used quite roughly in the 20k yesterday, for a lesson in how to take a beat like a man. A very funny man.
People are also coming out of the woodwork to insist that they don’t even try to win these things - it’s all about droppin’ hammers and putting people on tilt, the tournaments are just an extended joke. Now most of the guys saying this are Old Schoolers, and since they started all this, who the fuck am I to call them on it? If that’s truly why you play, that’s cool.
Personally that’s not why I play. By nature I am so competitive that I can’t help but want to win everything I sign up for. And I mean everything, from a $6 token race, to Crash Tag Team Racing with my four year-old son, to the FT 20k, which I vow I will bend over my knee one day soon and paddle until she’s bright red. Well, maybe not so much the video game…but all the rest holds up.
Yes, I have a good, good time shootin’ the shit with the boyz & girls, breaking out my signature hand A7s (The Accidental Tourist) whenever I can. But I still want to win. Every single time. Playing 27o or low suited connectors from LP doesn’t mean you don’t want to win. It means you are making plays. That’s no different for any other MTT I’ve played.
I am guessing, but I would bet Don, Hoy, Smokkee and the rest of the guys I normally run with feel the same. And no, it ain’t about the score: everyone on the list I’m thinking of is rolled to where the score is nice evening-out money, but not going to change the levels we play. It’s about the bragging rights.
To routinely sign-up on a weekly basis, and claim you aren’t playing to win is a fascile, if perfect, alibi. If you never win – hey you weren’t trying. If through some miracle you do win – hey you could’ve won any time you wanted. That’s ingenious, but also pretty ingenuous, and I for one don’t believe it for a second. Your thoughts, as always, are welcome.
Edit: Duggles feel I have misinterpreted him. Here is his post following last week's Mookie without alteration. Posted Thursday, Sept. 21, 2006
"A lot of people seem to be getting their panties twisted up into their twats over the quality of play in the Mookie.
I think we need to remind ourselves that it's a lousy $10 tournament that probably costs most of us more money to play based on what we would win by playing some other games. The thing takes like 3.5 hours to finish, and you stand to make like $150 for first place? My time is better spent at the PLO8 tables, if I'm in it for the money.
The point is to have fun, put the worst, tilt-inducing beat or bluff past your opponents, and drop a lot of hammers.
I heard about one player saying he "needed to win" the Mookie last night. If this was true, you really shouldn't be playing."
Well feel free to tell me I misinterpreted this, but for those who haven't noticed, I've read a book or two, and feel pretty good about my reading comprehension. I'll just say that a "lousy $10 tournament" looks a lot better to some people once they win it. I thought Mookie showed a lot of class (as always) overlooking that description of his online homegame. I'll try to follow his example. Congratulations on the win: as far as I'm concerned, that's a tough field to beat.
Anyway, I screwed the pooch bigtime in my attempt to repeat at the Mookie, and I don’t feel bad in the least that I was trying my best to kick all your asses. I always am. The only thing I regret is how rarely that happens.
Laytah.
17 Comments:
Thanks for making this point IAK, I wish I could make it as well as you do. I commented to CC (which didn't show up 'cause his comments section is screwy) that several players 'sandbag' the blogger MTT's in an effort to camouflage bad play. Also, that berating a player and calling names has no place at the table. If someone has a criticism, come out and say it, but calling someone a donkey is just plain juvinile. I for one, am perfectly willing to admit when I make a bad play...I'm no pro, and it happens often enough. What I can't stand the most is pretending a bad play was done on purpose since we're all friends and its only 10 bucks y'know.
Sorry to ramble in your comments! Cya.
Iak you've got me to a tee as well. Of course I'm out there trying to bust everyone's butt every time we play. Most of these guys are. At some point it is different from the 20k for me, in that I tend to play the Hammer, and the Waffles (42o) a bit more liberally in the blogger events, but I try to win with them, and I would never be so bold as to suggest that I don't try my damnedest in those tournaments. In some ways I try harder since as you pointed out it's about the glory and not the cash for me. I look forward to playing with my friends and to crushing you guys. Hopefully in the most humiliating way possible ;)
Glad you said this because now I can talk about something else in my blog today. I accept that some people might (maybe, I'm not even sure I actually believe this) actually not be trying to win in a blogger tournament. But I am 100% positive that the vast majority of the players in these things are playing to win. Albeit badly in some cases (Waffles you donkey caller!).
Nice post as always.
How's the 40k been treating you this week? I only played once so far (and donked of course).
Thanks for the shoutout and sorry about my screwy comments section. Terribly frustrating to say the least, and I'm sorry you guys have to put up with it.
The only thing I would add to this that I think you've mentioned as has hoy etc is that I may play more recklessly in a blogger event, but most of the time it is to my own detriment. An example of that was last night where we were talking about an A-10 that someone folded, I pick up A-10, and of course I have to come over-the-top with it since it is some sort of karma/destiny thing. Turned out it wasn't as nothing hit and I was crippled.
And to skidoo's point, I've gotten knocked out of regular events on more stupid plays than I have in the blogger events. I always feel if I can finish in the money of the MATH or the Mook, it's a good sign.
Blogger gave me all kinds of trouble last night and I ended up posting this three times! I deleted the other two, but want to bring over Pokerwolf's comment, since it is my policy to never delete a comment - especially the positive ones!
Pokerwolf said:
Well said, Iak.
The blogger tourneys, for me, are places to play against people who I know have more experience than I do. So, when I play, it's against a harder field than I might deal with when I'm playing an open tournament.
Thu Sep 28, 08:10:39 AM EDT
I think I've been misinterpreted when you say I'm "trying not to win" these tournaments. This is obviously not true.
I'm just saying that having fun in these things is more important to me than playing "perfect poker" (whatever that is.)
If you're not having fun, showing big bluffs and playing a bit crazy, these are the MOST BORING tournaments you'll ever play because players tend to be about 80% tighter than a normal MTT and unless you are thrilled by "fold" "fold" "raise" "fold" "fold" then you're not going to have a lot of fun in these.
I was going to comment, but it was so long it just turned into a post of it's own.
Blogger events are a funny thing. I've been playing in them since close to their inception and at first everyone took them seriously, then no one did, and now it's a mixture. For the most part I think everyone makes more moves than they usually would in one of their regular games.
Personally I try to give my A game in the Hoy and sling the chips a bit more in the mookie. It provides for a bit of a break sometimes.
Not sure if I'm more impressed with your "non-PC honesty" or your fucking kick-ass MTT game.
Keep up the good work on both fronts brother.
First off thanks for playing last night. For awhile there I thought you may get things going and make a run at back to back.
Any chance you can hop in your private plane (all successfull doctors, supermodels and dancers have private planes right ?) and make it out to the Big O on October 20th along with Eric ?
yeah, use some of those MTT winnings and show your self at the Live Mook, the only tourniment in town that matters.
Nice post, I have to admit I tend to play a more goofy style of poker at the mook since I'm fimilar with most, but I view that as a detriment and a flaw that I'm trying to correct. Still, I have to incorporate a little fun into this event, but last night was just down-right donkeyrific, on my part.
Before I advanced to where I am now, I took these blogger events very seriously. I tried to play my usual game since that is what I was comfortable with, and I thought I could win with this style. It did, and I am glad for that.
Now, I still try to win, but in the process I try to challenge myself to play a game that I am usually uncomfortable with during most blogger events. I know this is going to sound arrogant, but the money doesn't matter to me compared to the stakes I usually play. Winning $250 in a tournament doesn't really matter to me.
I also go into these things with every intention of taking them down. The fact that I have absolutely no idea how to reach that end is why I am making donkey plays. When I send people into tilt it is for damn good reason; they just got beat by a donk on a HUGE suckout. Of course that doesn't make them look any less like an ass for whining like a bitch about if for the next three days. :)
That being said, I do play a game that is completely foreign to me when I am competing against the bloggers. I try to play hands that I usually don't play just for the sake of variety. The players in these events see each other so often that it is often required that you play some 3-9o crap once in a while if you are going to get a hand to catch them by surprise. Setting someone off onto full-blown, profane, hissing and drooling tilt is just an amusing side effect.
I am looking forward to playing in more blogger events. They are a nice change for me to play poker for fun, instead of the grind of playing in large money tournaments. I still plan on playing to win but the concentration will be on having fun.
i suit up and show up to take down the mOOK every week. sumtimes i donk out on the very first hand tho.
LMFOROFLLLOLOlolaaROFL
I am unable to play many blogger tournaments due to work schedule but when I do play I play to win. I may drop the hammer if I get it in the blinds or during early tournaments and it is cheap to play but when blinds are at 500/250, ain't no hammer being dropped by me then.
Good post. Have fun, but play to win.
I love the balls out play. I dont have any so I need all the practice swatting them!!! I expect anything to be thrown my way. I have to be willing to reraise all in and resteal. These events force you to think outside the box and get out of your comfort zone.
Playing against the likes of Hoy and Iak and Surf and Smokkee and lifesagrind and all the others has gotten me more aggressive. I havent final tabled yet. came close 2-3 times in about 6-7 outings. But ill get there when all the pieces come together.
I still question your reading comprehension if you don't realize that the word "lousy" describes the $10 and not the tournament.
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